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  #11  
Old 11-06-2008
DRNEGRIN6 DRNEGRIN6 is offline
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Originally Posted by chassidy View Post
Oh ok I get it now,thanks. But no it doesnt make more sense to kill them cause they were never exposed thats the whole point of my problem. Exposure only occurs through contact with infectiouse saliva or nueral tissues, and at a distance of 153 ft thats down right impossiable wouldnt ya think?

As far as erroring on the side of caution to protect people, I had a cat that tested rabies positive, hiss at me from a distance of a few feet. Since I was potentially "exposed", I was the one selected to get the specimen for the rabies test. Even though this was only a potential exposure, I had protected myself during the decapitation for rabies testing, and my doctors were aware that I am allergic to the human rabies vaccines, I was ordered to get the post-exposure vaccines (2 doses for people previously vaccinated). This was not fun but it was better than risking losing your life to rabies.

As far as the home quarantines, I had a case here in NJ where a dog killed a raccoon; the raccoon turned out to be rabies positive. The dog had been previously vaccinated; I boostered the dog's rabies vaccines as per NJ law. The Township still did a 180 day quarantine even though the State law was 90 days for previously vaccinated animals. The dog was allowed to be quarantined in the home without any special enclosures; I know because that dog escaped confinement and attacked another one of my patients. Can you imagine the bind I was in? I was the shelter veterinarian for the Township, the veterinarian for the dog that did the biting and the veterinarian for the victim dog. What a mess!

Good luck with your case. Keep fighting the good fight.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2008
There'sgottabeabetterway There'sgottabeabetterway is offline
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Here in Fl. If a currently vaccinated dog/cat is exposed to a rabid animal, the dog/cat is immediately re-vaccinated and quarantined for 45 days. In the County that I am employed by home quarantines are allowed for currently vaccinated dogs, the dog owner must provide an enclosure prior to the dog being released from Animal Control. If a dog/cat is un-vaccinated and is exposed to a rabid animal, the dog/cat must be quarantined at a Veterinarain Clinic for 180 days and receive a rabies vaccine (I can't remember exactly when, but somewhere around 90 days). I have yet to see a Vet take on such a responsibility. If an un-vaccinated dog/cat is attacked by or attacks a raccoon or fox and the raccoon or fox cannot be tested (runs off) the un-vaccinated animal is still exposed to a rabid animal, same for a currently vaccinated dog/cat regardless of broken skin. Thus the "error on the side of caution".
Only wildlife that has known contact with a dog/cat/human is tested. If there is no known contact or physical evidence there is no need to test. No harm no foul.
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2008
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Originally Posted by There'sgottabeabetterway View Post
Here in Fl. If a currently vaccinated dog/cat is exposed to a rabid animal, the dog/cat is immediately re-vaccinated and quarantined for 45 days. In the County that I am employed by home quarantines are allowed for currently vaccinated dogs, the dog owner must provide an enclosure prior to the dog being released from Animal Control. If a dog/cat is un-vaccinated and is exposed to a rabid animal, the dog/cat must be quarantined at a Veterinarain Clinic for 180 days and receive a rabies vaccine (I can't remember exactly when, but somewhere around 90 days). I have yet to see a Vet take on such a responsibility. If an un-vaccinated dog/cat is attacked by or attacks a raccoon or fox and the raccoon or fox cannot be tested (runs off) the un-vaccinated animal is still exposed to a rabid animal, same for a currently vaccinated dog/cat regardless of broken skin. Thus the "error on the side of caution".
Only wildlife that has known contact with a dog/cat/human is tested. If there is no known contact or physical evidence there is no need to test. No harm no foul.
So, you'll vaccinate immediately after and animal exposure? Is there a reason for that? We don't allow that. If the pet was exposed and has vaccs, home quarantine for 45 days. If not vaccs home quarantine for 180 days.... I need to double check that for sure... kinda brain dead. Also we do not allow the pet to be vaccinated until after the quarantined is over. We do not do quarantine at the vet for exposures anymore due to the extremely high prices but I find it unenforceable if they don't. I have on a few cases arrived to do a "final health check" or to allow their dog off of house arrest, to see the DO exiting a car with the animal or coming back from a walk with the animal that was attacked by a coyote and did not have rabies vaccs. They can and do get away with it. So I cite them for failure to quarantine but how many people were exposed to that dog during the 6 months that we will never be able to track? What if the dog does end up with rabies? Now what... Try to retrace 6 months of possible contact?

I try to bring it up but like most things I suppose it will take someone getting hurt or bit by a "home Q" dog before the policy changes. I can understand if a blue hair(god bless em)is on Social Security and can't afford the 1000's of dollars it would cost to keep a dog at the vet but we would need to run by there every now and then to make sure they are doing what they were told to do. Does that make since? Or am I being an over enthusiastic youngster.

Cheers, Scooterchic
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2008
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No, no, not overly enthused at all, just fighting reality. Welcome to my he11.

Realistically, people can't be protected against themselves. If they want to (and you KNOW some of them want to), they can do all kinds of dumb things, like drive drunk, or ignore quarantine. And then those dear people will cause mayhem all around them, and we'll get to pick up whatever pieces we are in a good position to pick up.

We're really lucky that rabies isn't as prevalent as it was eighty years ago or so. We're really REALLY lucky that we have a good, reliable post-exposure vaccine. And most of all, we're lucky to be ACOs and know that eventually, some moron is going to slip through the cracks and someone is going to die of rabies from a U.S. source. Cynically, it's all job security, right? It's kind of like the relationship between Highway Patrol and drunk drivers. As officers, we can hope people won't do it, we can pray people won't do it ... but a certain number of us have to be on duty every day, because, dammit, some idiot WILL do it.

Life is very, very dangerous. I don't know why people don't get that.
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Last edited by stmelangell; 11-07-2008 at 04:29 AM. Reason: Dark. Too dark. Yes, being squished like a bug 2 years ago has affected my feelings about death ...
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2008
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I understand those reasons but exposure is not even a potential, if it was then they would have to declare human exposure because we were there too and closer than our chained dog. Then today I find out that the ACO is lying his but off and saying that we never showed him how it happened. My fiance took him under our back shelter to show him where we had burned the spot where we laid him until we could drop it into the cooler, and he doesnt remember that! He doesnt remember alot of stuff all of a sudden. Yesterday he said he was coming back out to see it all in the daylight cause he didnt remember, then I call to see if hes coming today and all of a sudden we didnt tell him or show him what happened and hes too busy.What the hell did I call him for then! This is really going a ways out now hope he will attest to that under oath we will.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2008
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I would NOT call Animal Control to come out that night and NOT give him all the details its a ludacris suggestion. Dont know how I can prove that though.


Though since Ive thought about it...I bet it was that mean boss of his that made him say that. Poor guy couldnt change his mind if he wanted too without that director breathing down his neck.

Last edited by chassidy; 11-07-2008 at 07:36 PM. Reason: add on
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  #17  
Old 11-07-2008
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Living proof, if more was needed: there are liars in all kinds of professions out there. Sorry for what you're going through. Hope it gets better soon.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2008
There'sgottabeabetterway There'sgottabeabetterway is offline
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The State Health Department rabies compendium requires that a dog or cat that is currently vaccinated against rabies be re-vaccinated immediately upon confirmation of exposure to rabies.
I should have stated that "some", not all dog owners are allowed to home quarantine, but they must provide an escape proof enclosure and this is only allowed with the approval of The Health Department. I have never received a report of a cat being attacked by a rabid animal and surviving the attack. We do not allow home quarantines for an unvaccinated dog exposed to a confirmed rabid animal or a possible exposure (dog attacks raccoon/fox and raccoon/fox runs off).
Unfortunately, every unvaccinated dog that has been exposed to a confirmed positive rabid animal or an unvaccinated dog that has attacked or been attacked by a raccoon/fox and we cannot confirm if the wildlife has rabies has been euthanized, for one or both of these reasons 1. The dog owner cannot afford the 6 month quarantine at a Veterinary Clinic. 2. No Veterinarian is willing to take the responsibility of quarantining a "non-client".

One of my most heart breaking cases was when an unvaccinated dog dug under a fence into a neighbors yard and the neighbors properly licensed pet raccoon (neutered, and lifetime history of RV and feline Vacc's, 9 years old) attacked the dog. Unfortunately the raccoon was not properly contained within a cage (per wildlife permit must be kept in a cage), he was wearing a harness and tethered outside while his owner was working in the yard within the fenced yard. Because the dog was unvaccinated (nor did it have any history of vaccination), the pet raccoon had to be euthanized and tested. Due to 1. and 2. above. The raccoon owner was willing to contribute, but 2. ended any chance of saving his pets life.

Also, I should note that we test all wildlife that has confirmed contact with any warm-blooded animal (not just dog/cat/human).

P.S. We do allow home quarantines for unvaccinated dog/cat that has bitten (or claw scratch for cats) a human or animal if the bite/claw scratch occurred while the dog was properly contained within the dog owners yard/possession (leashed) or in the house. In this case the dog/cat is not vaccinated against rabies until after the 10 day quarantine.

Last edited by There'sgottabeabetterway; 11-07-2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason: P.S and spell check
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2008
There'sgottabeabetterway There'sgottabeabetterway is offline
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Amen, to your last two postings!
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There'sgottabeabetterway View Post
The State Health Department rabies compendium requires that a dog or cat that is currently vaccinated against rabies be re-vaccinated immediately upon confirmation of exposure to rabies.
I should have stated that "some", not all dog owners are allowed to home quarantine, but they must provide an escape proof enclosure and this is only allowed with the approval of The Health Department. I have never received a report of a cat being attacked by a rabid animal and surviving the attack. We do not allow home quarantines for an unvaccinated dog exposed to a confirmed rabid animal or a possible exposure (dog attacks raccoon/fox and raccoon/fox runs off).
Unfortunately, every unvaccinated dog that has been exposed to a confirmed positive rabid animal or an unvaccinated dog that has attacked or been attacked by a raccoon/fox and we cannot confirm if the wildlife has rabies has been euthanized, for one or both of these reasons 1. The dog owner cannot afford the 6 month quarantine at a Veterinary Clinic. 2. No Veterinarian is willing to take the responsibility of quarantining a "non-client".

One of my most heart breaking cases was when an unvaccinated dog dug under a fence into a neighbors yard and the neighbors properly licensed pet raccoon (neutered, and lifetime history of RV and feline Vacc's, 9 years old) attacked the dog. Unfortunately the raccoon was not properly contained within a cage (per wildlife permit must be kept in a cage), he was wearing a harness and tethered outside while his owner was working in the yard within the fenced yard. Because the dog was unvaccinated (nor did it have any history of vaccination), the pet raccoon had to be euthanized and tested. Due to 1. and 2. above. The raccoon owner was willing to contribute, but 2. ended any chance of saving his pets life.

Also, I should note that we test all wildlife that has confirmed contact with any warm-blooded animal (not just dog/cat/human).

P.S. We do allow home quarantines for unvaccinated dog/cat that has bitten (or claw scratch for cats) a human or animal if the bite/claw scratch occurred while the dog was properly contained within the dog owners yard/possession (leashed) or in the house. In this case the dog/cat is not vaccinated against rabies until after the 10 day quarantine.
Wow. Awesome. It is amazing to see so many different ways of doing quarantine. Thanks TGBABW.

Cheers, Scooterchic
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