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  #21  
Old 02-03-2006
dug e dug e is offline
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imadogcop said:
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I don't believe most folks recognize how much a danger dogs can present to elderly people.
I agree with you but the key word is present not intent. Most of the time the dog probably just wants to play or some attention. I dont think the answer is to kill off a certain breed or any dog for that matter because IDIOT is to stupid to keep their dog in and/or dont really care about grandma or mom's quality of life period. Who cares if stupids great dane is playfully tormenting moms 2 year old in the sand box?

I dont think these people really care about the effects of thier dog running at large!!! But they care when I write them a $144 ticket for RAL. Or $244 for no rabies vaccination or $144 for no city tag. People really start paying attention when I chase thier beutifull choclate lab into thier back yard and take it because it eluded me all the way back to its home. The owner is appauled when I tell them that thier intact male was out trying to take it upon himself to repopulate the entire city.

"Do you have a current rabies vaccination certificate from an Okalhoma Sate recognized vet? (I ask for this like the police ask for an insurance verification) Do you have a current city tag? Why isnt the dogs tags on its collar? Here sign all these citations, press hard there are 5 copies."

Its not the dog it is the owner!!!!

Doug
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2006
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Originally Posted by dug e

Its not the dog it is the owner!!!!

Doug
What kind of "owner" tends to select a breed of dog for a pet that has been selectively bred to fight and kill other dogs?

Lots of breeds of dogs out there...bright, obedient, affectionate dogs, all shapes & sizes...why pick one bred to fight & kill other dogs for a pet?
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2006
Gromlich Gromlich is offline
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What kind of "owner" tends to select a breed of dog for a pet that has been selectively bred to fight and kill other dogs?

OOOOOHHH Hell.

Me, I am THAT kind of OWNER. Let me clarify that I did not just wake up one morning and decide, "Gee, let me see if I can get one of those "breed to fight and kill other dogs" just to see if it will kill my other dogs, maul my children or me. Nope, I see it this way, a little more logical than that. Just because soemthing has the BLOOD of what ever was trained before it doesnt mean that this dog is gonna be the same. It has to be driven and trained into that dog. Your dad was a smarta**, does that mean you are? If you were brought up around it all your life, good chance you will be. If mom and dad divorced and you lived with mom and you were not raised around the smartas**, most likely you will not be a smartass**. Also Do you think the shar-peis were born ready and waiting to guard the meat? Nope they had to be trained. I owned one of those too for 14 years. They say its a good bloodline for what characteristics the body carries on. stocky shoulders, sharp jaw line, and yes the idiots say how many fights they have one. But if you dont train them to be killers, they wont be. They can all be compassionate and I can prove that. Just take a look at my 7-8 year old pit. Who I have taken to schools to educate the children. Raised around two children. NEVER has snapped, bitten or tried to impose any danger on me or my family. Now, try to come in my house when I am not there or sleeping? She will tear your butt up. And that I did teach her.
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2006
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Okay, Okay! Lets slow down here. First I dont think we need to get ugly at each other. I think that on both sides of the argument it comes back to irresponsible people.

You are of the opinion that people should not select a bread that has been bred to kill and fight other dogs. I think people should be responsible. I dont care if they have a 7 headed, queen slaying, firebreathing dragon or some man killing menace from outer space in thier backyard!!! As long as the thing is taken care of and in compliance with federal, state and municiple law (not scaring the bejesus out of granny) I can care less what it is!!!!!

Now there is no sense for us to argue at each other. I think it is healthy to discuss the spirit of an issue and then work toward aplying what we learn from each other.

I dont have a whole lot of time in animal control, about 2 years in . But I have a bunch of experience in dealing with people. I think 99.9 % of all animal issues can be solved dealing smartly with people. I also think that the remaining % will get me hurt. I also live in a town small enough that I have time to deal with individual people like that. I am not all that rushed.

Doug
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2006
Gromlich Gromlich is offline
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Default Nasty?

Nasty? Sorry if I came across that way. Maybe its the meds. Just tring to get a point across and well, ya know when you feel very strongly about something you tend to voice it loudly. Thats me. I value everybodys oppions here.
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  #26  
Old 02-03-2006
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Just had to toss in my two pennies on this one.. I dont think people go out and look for dogs that were bred to kill other dogs... I think a "certain population" out there selects a pit bull because they think it looks cool to have a tough looking dog, it becomes a status symbol, and the pit bull in general is a "not so nice" looking dog... They ask themselves "Why get a BEAUTIFUL German Shepherd when we can have a dog with ears hacked off halfway and a big huge buff chest?? Shepherds dont look like that" They dont realize the GSD has just as much potential to be aggressive, attacking people and other dogs, and they have the appearance just as mean.
If they wanted a dog that was bred to attack, IF they were smart (I am refering to the owners who want "mean looking" dogs) they would have half a brain that would tell them the GSD was ALSO bred for working lines to chase, capture, and attack people, which is for police purposes.
But the shepherd isnt "tough" looking enough for the general public.
So they go for the tough dogs, then they take their "tough" dogs home and place a dang tow chain and paddlock around their necks and give them very little moving space which makes them anxious and jumpy, and they start becoming aggressive over their little chain area.
If they were to take a working line GSD, chain it up like that, I can guarantee it would become extremely aggressive, and the day that dog breaks loose, well, all hell will break loose with it.
So I guess I dont think that when people look for a pit bull they want a dog that will get loose and kill their neighbor's dog someday, they just want a dog that will make them "tough" like all their friends, and most aggressive breeds just dont look tough enough for them... It's pathetic.
I think they need to have strict laws against people who allow their dogs to run loose because the majority of our dog attacks here involve dogs that have been loose a thousand times already. Had laws been more strict, they wouldnt have that dog long enough for it to be involved in a attack in the first place.
But they (government) will learn the hard way. They will do their little breed bans and these stupid pet owners will then go out and get other breeds and the same thing will happen all over again.
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Old 02-03-2006
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Just my two cents worth,,, Pit bulls are like guns, in the right hands they are fine in the wrong hands they can be deadly.
Grom Ive learned quite alot from line breeding and genetics and dogs can show some characteristics from ancestors just from the genes with no training involved. Responsible owners should know what kind of dog they are raising and what that dog was bred to do in the beginning. I think we all agree that it boils down to the person owning the dog and being responsible.
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  #28  
Old 02-03-2006
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UNDTKR and LCK - I agree with both of you and very well spoken. Sorry to all that my posts may have offended. Its a shame and the battle will never end. With or without the banns.
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  #29  
Old 02-04-2006
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Gomlich wrote:
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Nasty? Sorry if I came across that way. Maybe its the meds. Just tring to get a point across and well, ya know when you feel very strongly about something you tend to voice it loudly. Thats me. I value everybodys oppions here.
Gromlich I was not talking about you, you are right!!!! I am on your side all the way. And you dont offend anyone that I have seen. I believe with everything inside of me that an animal reacts to Its environment. I was just trying to cool down some sparks that looked like could have ignited.


You go get um!!!
Doug
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  #30  
Old 02-04-2006
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LEGISLATE AGAINST THE OWNERS!!! I am so tired of people who have dangerous dogs having the dog taken away and a fine or something incurred. Smack them with jail time or enough of a fine that they don't want to create another situation like that ever again. We all know that the dog is going to suffer for its behaviour, whatever -- either by continued isolation (and being owned by a jerk), or by being taken away and euthanized. If we make the a**hole owner suffer a bunch in addition, maybe s/he'll think again before s/he screws up the next dog.

As a chow rescuer, my experience is that environment is 80% of the solution and good breeding is the other 20%. I have seen chow after chow that some idiot puts in the backyard as a living alarm system, and 3 years later no one gets into the backyard, including the idiot. (Chows have been bred for 2,000 years to hunt and guard, but everyone acts all surprised when they do that ... )
I have sometimes seen puppies that I thought had high levels of territorial/predatory aggression, that I thought would grow up into dangerous dogs no matter what. But these were the tiny minority -- probably three pups in 6 years. Generally, a pup of any breed is going to react to its environment. They learn what behaviours will result in good stuff happening, and behave in a way that gives them that good result. If the owner makes sure that the only good result they ever get is catching the cat or having fun snarling at people over the fence, that's what the owner gets, gosh darn it, and who the h*ll's fault is that????

My own male chow, Kandahar, came from a street breeder who was going to dump all four of his pups on the street. I've had him since he was 6 weeks old, and he is 70 pounds of total cuddly love. He goes running up to people with his big pom-pom tail wagging like crazy, wanting to be petted and scratched ... THAT startles some of the dog trainers at work, I can tell you!! He sleeps very happily on the bed with my cats, despite being (typically) predatory out on walks... because he knows my boundaries and has adapted to them.
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