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  #21  
Old 12-27-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dispatchgoddess50
Can we tone down the racial stereotyping ?

Thanks.
A racial sterotype is an assumption of a certain behavior or activity based soley upon race.

There was no "racial stereotyping", it was a DIRECT QUOTE, AS IT WAS STATED BY THE PERSON who, like so many before him, came to our shelter looking for "breeding stock".
I was standing FIVE FEET AWAY AND HEARD HIM SAY EXACTLY WHAT I TYPED JUST AS HE SAID IT.

Why are facts so offensive?
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  #22  
Old 12-28-2006
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I have rescued more animals from shelters... and from rescue groups then I care to remember. Dogs, cats, feral kittens, parrots, snakes, hamsters, rats, mice, chinchillas, guinea pigs, ferrets, fish, hedgehogs, turtles, chickens, peacocks, geese, swans, an armadillo, goats, a prarie dog and ?? (that doesnt include any of the wildlife rehab animals that lived in my house... those numbers went into the thousands...) I have also purchased two dogs from breeders (one was a rescue, believe me...) and raised "planned" litters of both dogs and cats for other people and organizations. I have trained and showed dogs and horses and made a living for awhile training animals for other people.

I do think there are responsible breeders out there. I know I have met some that I thought cared about what they were doing. I have met breeders that sell every puppy that they see as "not good enough" or that they know is going to a family pet home altered as puppies... or kitties. When the one shelter I worked at was on the verge of depopulating EVERY SINGLE CAT we had in the building, I contacted a breeder I knew, who flew up to our facility on her own dime, watched the crew clean, came up with suggestions and equipment we had never even seen and helped us get under control a URI infection that had the local vet population stumped, and had cats sneezing blood for weeks.

I have never witnessed a dog breeder waltz into any of the shelters I worked at to try and reclaim a pup they bred be anything but charitable and appreciative that we called them and that we gave them the opportunity to rescue the dog. (I cant say the same for some cat breeders...) Some were frantic and worried, but normally that passes when they know they are going to be treated right.

NOW on the other hand, I have seen rescue groups come into shelters with lists of demands. I have seen them treat staff as "murderers" and yell out horrific things about shelter workers who are doing the best that they can.

I have been into rescue groups foster homes or sanctuaries where I was absolutely horrified at the living conditions of their "so called" rescued animals...stacked in crates in garages... wherehoused in cages for YEARS... dragged out into public venues sick, etc to raise money... And all this was to prevent the animal from being euthanized at a shelter. Euthanasia CAN MEAN good death... I still believe it. Im still proud that I can offer that to animals that society has overlooked.

And yet... I have zero wish for the government to come in and enact legislation that requires breeders to pay for rescue/shelter work. I do not want the government to step in and legislate any social reform in that manner. This is a societal problem, bigger then breeders. I have no problem with businesses meeting regulations that protect the buyers and sellers, and I believe all animals should be treated humanely and their welfare guarded. I have no problem with higher licensing fees for intact animals, or fees being charged for impounds, boarding, sterilization, vaccinations, etc...

But your average responsible hobbyist breeder is not the problem. If you look at the population of animals that end up in shelters, look at some of the most crowded cities and metro areas... the shelters have a much higher population of pits and pit mixes(sometimes 90+ %), rotts and chow mixes... Do you really believe that most of these animals come from planned breedings between two dogs by breeders? Is that the responsibility of the person who is selling one litter of performance bred shetland sheepdogs, that all have deposits on them before they are born? No. Is it fair to expect that the average american household is going to go into one of these shelters and find "the family pet" they are looking for? So how do you explain such a high percentage of these almost unadoptable animals crowding kennels, and who on earth is going to find them homes? Where are people going to go for the dog that they want to bring into their home for the next 15 years to live with their children? There is a certain reality to animal shelters people need to face up to.

I dont have all the answers... But I like golden retrievers that are soft and sweet and walk around with stuffed toys in their mouth. I like dachsunds that have a little fire in their belly and think they are the size of great danes. I like chows that look at you with that "kiss my ass" look on their faces, and purple tongues, and I wouldnt want them to all disappear into a sea of mixed breed dogs. If all the responsible breeders were forced to quit, would we eventually have nothing left but the crappiest dogs owned by the most irresponsible owners reproducing? Would anyone want to rescue those animals, and who would take them in as family pets?

Devil's advocate position, but give it some thought...
~k
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  #23  
Old 12-28-2006
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Quote:
I dont have all the answers... But I like golden retrievers that are soft and sweet and walk around with stuffed toys in their mouth. I like dachshunds that have a little fire in their belly and think they are the size of great Danes. I like chows that look at you with that "kiss my ass" look on their faces, and purple tongues, and I would want them to all disappear into a sea of mixed breed dogs. If all the responsible breeders were forced to quit, would we eventually have nothing left but the crappiest dogs owned by the most irresponsible owners reproducing? Would anyone want to rescue those animals, and who would take them in as family pets?
Thank you K for putting my thoughts into words, I could have said it better. 99% of the dogs that come through my shelter are unplanned, unwanted , and " I dont know who the daddy is" dog.

True a lot of these dogs end up making wonderful pet. Ive rescued my share of shelter animals that were fine. But a lot do not. Its hard for me to tell adopters, "I know nothing about this dogs background." I want to train every adopter to be well informed dog trainers so they can assess the dog as it grows up in there home. How many of us see returns of dogs that are adopted. "he runs away, he chews things up, hes gotten aggressive. The biggest one of all," its just to much dog for me." Bottom line people need educated on dog ownership. But even that will not stop or put a dent in our jobs.

The animals and the responsible animal owners are paying the price already Fester, How would you suggest making those who you have come across looking for "money on the paw" dogs responsible?
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  #24  
Old 12-28-2006
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How do I plan to do that?
Simple.
When all the "Puppies" or "kittens" for sale make it into the paper on Sunday, Monday morning start calling/visiting these people and just as you would treat those who didn't have a drivers license or a tag on their car, drop-kick them.
You could make enough money in fines to cover the expense of the people who would be needed to enforce it.

No breeders license, no fee paid, fines, court costs. Make it tougher on them than to just give the lame-a55 excuse, "well, I wuz gunn git that done, but uhhh, that would have meant I couldn't buy the 12packs of the beer I LIKE, so I wanted you to take these (dogs/cats) and find homes for all of 'em."

The government seems to be infecting every other area of our lives up to and including your private bedroom activities, what's one more?

We've tried virtually everything else and it just doesn't seem to be working.
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  #25  
Old 12-28-2006
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Default Breeding

I think that there are "responsible" and "irresponsible" breeders. The people that think their pet is "unique", either in color or temperment or whatever their stupid reason so they breed it and none of the offspring turn out the way they want so they try to get them homes, dump them in the country or a shelter and try again. Then there are the people that do not keep their animals securely contained, especially the females, and then they come home pregnant. They do not have any idea what bred their female and they bring us the pups to deal with. Then there are the cowards who let their dog breed and when they can't deal with the whole puppy thing they anon dump them over the fence at the pound or shelter. We just had that happen, someone dumped 6 pups over the fence overnight. Now we have no idea what breed they are, if they have had any shots or medical care. Turns out the other night one pup died overnight and we had no idea why. Then this morning another one was sick. Turns out it tested positive for Parvo. I personally had to take all five to the vet to be euth'd. Now our entire shelter has been quarantined and the other dogs have been put at risk. Someone else just dumped a 6 week old pup in our mall parking lot. It was skin and bones, freezing and wormy. I considered breeding my beautiful chocolate brindle staffie but have seen too many animals out there all ready that nobody wants, no matter how beautiful or well behaved they are. Last year we had 494 dogs come thru our doors, this year we have had 671. That means that this year more dogs were born than last that nobody wants. WTF? Unless you are a licensed breeder, with the proper facilities and that is your main source of income then there is absolutelly NO reason for you to not get your animal spayed or neutered. Almost all my animals, minus one(who has an appointment already) are fixed. For the last 3 days I have had to take animals to the vet to be euth'd. I am sick of it. It hurts down into my soul to have to do this but unfortunately that is reality. We just had a lady phone today who adopted a dog from us who lost her spay certificate. She should have had this dog fixed back in June. Her excuse was that she just didn't have time to get her in, and she didn't realize that the vet was open 5 days a week and every other weekend. DUH. Until more people take responsibility and fix their animal we are going to have to euthanize animals. I hate to say it but as an animal control officer I will not be laid off for lack of work any time soon. As my boss told me, we are held to a higher standard and should practice what we preach. Our collegue on here sounds like she is fairly responsible and isn't repeatedly breeding out litter after litter with no regard to whether or not they are wanted. Just my 25 cents worth.
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  #26  
Old 12-28-2006
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I'd be all for making them stand there and watch the "deed" being done.

Like I said, we're banging our heads against the wall with no solution in sight-if anyone has any better ideas, I'm open....
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  #27  
Old 12-28-2006
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For me, pet overpopulation is one of those problems that we can work on through education, adoption and humane euthanasia.

In the area that I work in, the raccoon population grows... overpopulates, then we have distemper sweep through the population and they die off, and then the cycle begins again. This happens with no interference from people... maybe there is no solution to pet overpopulation except to do what we do with sick raccoons. Go out, pick them up, humanely euthanize and dispose of them. Dogs, I might believe we have a chance at curbing overpopulation through education and licensing, but CATS??? I think there is ZERO possibility of that. Society as a whole considers them disposable.


~k
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  #28  
Old 12-29-2006
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Breathe everyone......

Obviously a heated and much disputed topic, but lets lay off the personal attacks. I respect all of ya, but this is getting a little out of pocket....

Take it easy now, show a little love.
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  #29  
Old 12-30-2006
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Default So we only consider the dog to be a pet then?

Hi K and All,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbirdhse
For me, pet overpopulation is one of those problems that we can work on through education, adoption and humane euthanasia.

In the area that I work in, the raccoon population grows... overpopulates, then we have distemper sweep through the population and they die off, and then the cycle begins again. This happens with no interference from people... maybe there is no solution to pet overpopulation except to do what we do with sick raccoons. Go out, pick them up, humanely euthanize and dispose of them. Dogs, I might believe we have a chance at curbing overpopulation through education and licensing, but CATS??? I think there is ZERO possibility of that. Society as a whole considers them disposable.


~k
Ok I'm awake . You are kidding yourself, I think, if you say there is no interference from people even in the raccoon population. There is doped bait distributed; there are folks who trap and relo raccoons; there is development that makes no provision for wildlife corridors and diversity.

With respect, I would say that we have never concertedly TRIED education as a tool to help domestic cats. I look around, today, at the humane ed field -- just was mulling that over recently -- and I see people who know all about dogs and who will trot a dog into a classroom at the drop of a hat. They get funded by private foundations to do that. But those same foundation trustees won't drop a dime, not even a penny, to see a NEW humane educator come in who talks about cats as well as dogs, and realizes that cats are DIFFERENT.

I think there are a lot of people who have very deep feelings of compassion for animals other than dogs. I don't think that existing theories for licensing do a good job at embracing those people, so they end up alienated and avoiding the animal control structure.

TNR really *does* make a huge difference in the number AND IN THE WELFARE of cats that don't live as pets. I've seen it with my own eyes, and I suspect a lot of people could attest to it other than me. It is certainly an approach appropriate for cats but not for dogs -- but that doesn't mean it should be ignored or that it's invalid.

Dog breed rescue is an accepted part of many community animal welfare systems today. Unfortunately, cat rescue is largely not, because it doesn't fit the dog-centric mold. I can, though, tell you, that surely rounding up and disposing of cats does NOT work. My county has tried it for decades and we've got many more cats out there today as a result, not fewer. You can't enforce compassion away.
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  #30  
Old 12-31-2006
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Lots and lots of words. Its simple:

Breeding = Making more...(any species)

TNR = Trap, Neuter, Re-abandon

I suppose now we will have heated discussion about TNR?
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