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View Poll Results: How do you feel about eating meat?
I'm a Vegan or Vegetarian (No meat at all). 2 5.71%
I'm a Pescetarian (The only meat I'll ever eat is seafood). 3 8.57%
I don't like the idea of eating animals but I do it anyway. 1 2.86%
I'm pretty much a carnivore and I'm okay with that. 29 82.86%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 09-19-2006
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Originally Posted by Connecticut AACO
From a Biological standpoint, the Human digestive system is not designed to handle an all vegetarian diet.
From a biological standpoint, I wonder if--much like our appendix--the features of our bodies (teeth,etc.) that are made for eating meat are echoes of a time long past, where meat WAS necessary for survival. They could also be part of our own natural progression because--if global disaster were to strike and plunge us back into an archaic existence, we've been given (through creation or natural selection, whichever) the means necessary to ensure the survival of the human race. Just something to think about.

Also, I think we're pretty well built for the whole grains, veggies, fruits, nuts, and beans diet, even if no meat were available. But you are right, plants are a bit tricky for our systems; that's why we can't eat tree leaves and grass and stuff like that, mainly just grains. That's also why eating a lot of salad in one day tends to "cleanse" our systems. Thanks for your post!

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To all the people who eat seafood, be carefull because you put yourself at a higher risk for toxins.
Especially methyl-mercury. I've studied that quite a bit, it's the predatorial animals of the ocean (like tuna) that put us at the highest risk (bioaccumulation). Very good point here.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Originally Posted by stmelangell
I think most people vastly underestimate the amount of time it's going to take something to die when they point a gun at it and fire, and vastly overestimate their protein requirements.
Sooooo true. Your entire reply here hit home with me on many levels. I could tell some gruesome hunting stories here, but I'll spare you all. I'll just say you hit the nail on the head here. It's so common that someone might shoot and injure an animal and then be too darn lazy or uncaring to actually spend the time to track it and chase it. Again, not much sport to that kind of hunting.
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Old 09-19-2006
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I think eating meat is perfectly ok for humans. Look at the Native Americans - they would utilize every part of the animals they've raised, it was the "circle of life" if you will. I think that's perfectly normal and acceptable for some people.
I agree, I only wish that with all of our modern means we had that same sense of good management over the animal world that our "savage" ancestors had.
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Though I still don't think I can raise my own meat-animals *cathy raises some meat goats, along with her pets and milk and breeding goats* but I don't shame people for doing so.
goats are way too cute and skinny to eat
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Old 09-19-2006
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I think going the freerange/organic route is a lot more realistic, at least for me. I love cheese, I'd never give it up.
Here, here ... I'm trying to convince all the people around me with pet chickens to give me eggs. I haven't figured out the dairy thing yet, except to make my own cheese from the local Francisan animal shelter's milk -- which is unreliable, to say the least (thank God some more). Fish, fish, fish. I love mine. I would sooner eat sawdust. But oysters, crabs, little shrimpies ... oh, dear. I am kinder to flies and mosquitos ...
LOL.. I love my seafood as well. (hate them skeeters though). I wish I knew people around me that had stuff like that; I grew up on a farm, but we've long since quit dealing with animals (parents are retired now and all the kids have moved away). I've been doing the whole foods/ wild oats and other health food stores thing lately. You can actually buy pretty much anything organic nowadays from those places. Can get expensive though, but one day when I win the lottery (dream) I'll be a 100% organic/free range kind of guy. I can say that I only buy organic milk and eggs and such though, the price difference there isn't too significant.
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Old 09-19-2006
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I am an avid hunter and an avid meat eater. I just plain ole don't like veggies very much.

Hunting gives me untold opportunities to enjoy and learn about animals in their natural settings. I've learned things I never knew before that help me give people advice on how to live in harmony with these urban adapted wildlife. When I have an injured wild animal, I now know a lot more about how to hold it, handle it, deal with it in such a way to minimize its discomfort and panic. I am in true awe of nature at sunrise when the marsh awakens and I get to watch dozens of animals do their thing. And I appreciate it when they outsmart me!!!

Hunting gives my dogs an outlet for their natural instincts. Think of the joy in your dog's eyes when you break out a brand new box of their very favorite treat in the world. Now take that joy and multiple it about a hundred times and you'll see the very essence of my dog's being. I am in true awe of my dogs when I watch them at work. My dog's would be absolutely crushed and depressed if they couldn't hunt. I treasure the beauty of who and what they are.

As far as foie gras goes, ducks and geese NATURALLY gorge themselves. Birds are gorgers. My boyfriend shot a duck recently that had so much corn in its throat that it just flowed out. It was packed overtight......this was a wild animal who CHOSE to eat like that. There is a special call used in duck hunting called a cajun call that says, "hey guys come over here, my quacks sound funny because I've gorged myself on rice and I can barely quack. Come and eat with me". So, we are duplicating a natural process in commerical farming.

But that said, I don't believe that all farming and animal agriculture and hunting is humane. Any hunter I know would ostrasize and give mean lectures to anyone who hunted in an inhumane manner. I get all my eggs and most of my meat from local humane sources. I don't like shipping long distances to slaughter houses but regulations create that. I don't like huge commercial farms but regulations create that.

And the horse slaughter act........what are we going to do now? I hope everyone who voted for that will personally take on feeding at least a thousand of the homeless horses themselves so that they don't have to starve to death slowly.

Alright, off my soap box, its too early in the day to get fired up.

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Old 09-19-2006
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I am an avid hunter and an avid meat eater. I just plain ole don't like veggies very much.

Hunting gives me untold opportunities to enjoy and learn about animals in their natural settings. I've learned things I never knew before that help me give people advice on how to live in harmony with these urban adapted wildlife. When I have an injured wild animal, I now know a lot more about how to hold it, handle it, deal with it in such a way to minimize its discomfort and panic. I am in true awe of nature at sunrise when the marsh awakens and I get to watch dozens of animals do their thing. And I appreciate it when they outsmart me!!!

Hunting gives my dogs an outlet for their natural instincts. Think of the joy in your dog's eyes when you break out a brand new box of their very favorite treat in the world. Now take that joy and multiple it about a hundred times and you'll see the very essence of my dog's being. I am in true awe of my dogs when I watch them at work. My dog's would be absolutely crushed and depressed if they couldn't hunt. I treasure the beauty of who and what they are.

As far as foie gras goes, ducks and geese NATURALLY gorge themselves. Birds are gorgers. My boyfriend shot a duck recently that had so much corn in its throat that it just flowed out. It was packed overtight......this was a wild animal who CHOSE to eat like that. There is a special call used in duck hunting called a cajun call that says, "hey guys come over here, my quacks sound funny because I've gorged myself on rice and I can barely quack. Come and eat with me". So, we are duplicating a natural process in commerical farming.

But that said, I don't believe that all farming and animal agriculture and hunting is humane. Any hunter I know would ostrasize and give mean lectures to anyone who hunted in an inhumane manner. I get all my eggs and most of my meat from local humane sources. I don't like shipping long distances to slaughter houses but regulations create that. I don't like huge commercial farms but regulations create that.

And the horse slaughter act........what are we going to do now? I hope everyone who voted for that will personally take on feeding at least a thousand of the homeless horses themselves so that they don't have to starve to death slowly.

Alright, off my soap box, its too early in the day to get fired up.

)
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  #27  
Old 09-19-2006
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Originally Posted by bexleyaco
As far as foie gras goes, ducks and geese NATURALLY gorge themselves. Birds are gorgers. My boyfriend shot a duck recently that had so much corn in its throat that it just flowed out. It was packed overtight......this was a wild animal who CHOSE to eat like that. There is a special call used in duck hunting called a cajun call that says, "hey guys come over here, my quacks sound funny because I've gorged myself on rice and I can barely quack. Come and eat with me". So, we are duplicating a natural process in commerical farming.
)
C'mon. Give me a break. I don't mean to sound too heated here, cause I'm not personally angry or anything like that, but I can't help but to point out how ridiculous this sounds. Have you seen the videos? There is NOTHING at all "natural" about grabbing an animal by the throat and sticking a tube down its neck and forcing food into it over and over again until its organs bulge and it dies.

If I am walking through the woods, and I see an animal "gorging" itself, then that's one thing... that's "natural." But in the natural world, animals don't usually come across enough food to gorge themselves. It just doesn't happen too often. It's when we FEED animals or provide food for them that they eat themselves senseless. For example, the national park service in some parks used to put bags of feed out for the wildlife, but then they started to find deer bloated and dead. Because of that, in most places at least, they only feed animals during the worst of droughts or during harsh winters. Another example: Where do you think the duck your boyfriend killed found all that corn? That's a human-grown agricultural product, it's not even a product that's found in the wild. Someone was feeding your boyfriend's duck; probably baiting it for hunting with corn from a feed store. Of course it might have also been someone who thought they were doing the duck in their back yard or park a favor by feeding it. Either way, an animal eating itself to death is EXTREMELY unusual in the natural world (without human involvement).

There's a cycle to the natural world. Food supply goes up, population goes up. As a result, food supply goes down, and then population goes down. That's the real biology at play here. There's nothing at all scientific to prove that animals gorge themselves to death "naturally" (without human involvement).

Sorry, I just had to say something about that.
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Originally Posted by bexleyaco
Hunting gives me untold opportunities to enjoy and learn about animals in their natural settings. I've learned things I never knew before that help me give people advice on how to live in harmony with these urban adapted wildlife.
I completely agree here. Some of the most responsible and outspoken conservationists I know (and know of) are also avid hunters (Teddy Roosevelt is a good historical example of this).

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Hunting gives my dogs an outlet for their natural instincts. Think of the joy in your dog's eyes when you break out a brand new box of their very favorite treat in the world. Now take that joy and multiple it about a hundred times and you'll see the very essence of my dog's being. I am in true awe of my dogs when I watch them at work. My dog's would be absolutely crushed and depressed if they couldn't hunt. I treasure the beauty of who and what they are.
Again, I can relate to this 100%. I always had rabbit and coon dogs, and used them to hunt a variety of animals. It is truly amazing to see them work. Ahh... takes me back to the days where I was the little kid in "Where the Red Fern Grows"--still one of my favorite books of all time.

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And the horse slaughter act........what are we going to do now? I hope everyone who voted for that will personally take on feeding at least a thousand of the homeless horses themselves so that they don't have to starve to death slowly.
What?? Housing horses to prevent the slaughter is the least of this nation's worries. There were like, what... three, maybe four horse slaughter houses in the whole nation, and they were foreign owned companies who shipped the meat abroad. "In all, about 88,000 horses, mules and other equines were slaughtered last year, according to the Agriculture Department." (That article found here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14720011/) The idea is that, if demand dries up because the factories are shut down, then supply will dry up as well. Farmers will learn that it is not profitable to ship horses all the way to Canada and Mexico for slaughter (most of the slaughter houses were located in the midwest), and the practice will stop. If that means that horses have to be "put down" to avoid being eaten, then so be it.

I see this as more of a stand for protection of America's culture and America's historical heritage than merely an animal rights' issue. After all, America was built on the back of the horse, and I'm not willing to sell 200 years of historical memory to new memories of mass horse slaughter for human consumption. In other words, I like the idea that my children will learn of the horse that we learned about as kids... the Wild Wild West, the Pony Express, Rough Riders, John Wayne, Buffalo Soldiers, Budweiser Clydesdales, and so on. I do not at all like the idea that my American children might learn to mainly associate the horse as something that people eat. God Bless America I'm riding off into the sunset now....
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There are more than 3 or 4 slaughter houses for horses. I can think of at least one just in Ohio and I know there used to be two here.
And of those 88,000 horses in one year, where do they go from now on? I personally know of one person who gets paid to warehouse mustangs. He has anywhere from 1000 to 5000 mustangs on his Montana property in feed lots.

Hunting wise, waterfowl feed on grass, marsh plants, grain in our farm fields and so on. You'd be amazed at how much grain is left behind in a field by an older inefficient tractor. My horses could kill themselves in a few hours on the grain left behind in an average grain field AFTER harvest. So, no, the ducks were not feeding on something that a hunter illegally put out to lure them in. They were feeding on nearby fields and on the lush marsh we had the privilege to visit. There are lots and lots of resources for wildlife to gorge themselves in certain areas at certain times.....for instance, try putting out that bait pile of corn for deer when the apples are growing on the trees, berries in the bushes, crops in the fields and grass everywhere. They won't touch it! And the commerical ducks do not die during or because of the feeding process. They are slaughtered just like other livestock. I don't trust any of the videos I see. I've been in slaughter houses and stood on the kill floor. That's the facts I would rather gave my ideas from.
But I think we're all smart to continue to push commercial agriculture to be accountable. The really big factory farms are not the same as family run small to medium size operations.

And, although this topic is certainly a bit heated, I think its really nice that everyone is expressing their opinions in a friendly manner. I have several close friends that are vegetarians. We eat together alot(pizza and pasta for me, please) and I definitely respect their opinions whether its done for health, taste preference, or respect for animals.
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Old 09-19-2006
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Well, Like I said, if you dry up the demand (shut down foreign owned slaughter houses), a lot of the supply will disappear just as soon as people figure out it's not profitable. Of course, many people will continue to export horses to other countries, but that's still (my opinion here) better than the United States destroying its rich historical and cultural relationship with equine.

There are, as of today, only 3 horse slaughter houses in the entire United States. There are more in other countries, of course, but in the USA there are 2 in Texas and 1 in DeKalb, Illinois. Good site for more facts here:
http://equineprotectionnetwork.com/slaughter/stats.htm

And point well taken on how agricultural waste might end up feeding wild animals. Still though, I'm sure you would agree that's not "natural." Anything left behind from a broken tractor or from other modern farming activities can't really be considered part of an animal's natural diet. And I still stick to the claim that confining an animal, holding an animal by its neck, and then sticking a tube down its throat and forcing food into its belly until its organs expand and it dies... that ain't natural at all.

I would encourage all who read this.. suck it up and watch the videos. Watch the videos showing horse slaughter and foie gras production.

I've noticed that so far every single person in this post seems to agree on at least one thing.. that animals should be executed for food in a humane manner if they are executed for food at all. That's just not the case with foie gras or horse slaughter. I wish it was. But it's not. Google it, watch the videos, and see for yourself.

Education, Education, Education.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful posts!
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