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Old 07-03-2006
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Default You guys will get sick of me soon

lol first of all, sorry for all the posts, but im just really interested

secondly, i really want to a question answered, how come some aco's and hleo carry guns or firearms and some dont?

i've tried searching and it doesnt bring up much

your help is once again very appreciated

Rex
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2006
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Default Re: You guys will get sick of me soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWC
lol first of all, sorry for all the posts, but im just really interested

secondly, i really want to a question answered, how come some aco's and hleo carry guns or firearms and some dont?

i've tried searching and it doesnt bring up much

your help is once again very appreciated

Rex
Firearms? That is a hot button topic in the ACO/HLEO field. There are two schools of thought.

1. Guns are an essential tool for the profession as we deal with the exact same criminal types that "regular" LEO types do.

OR

2. Guns are non-essential items and only serve to give ACOs a false sense of security and increase the risks that they face in the field.

Oh, and there is a third philosopohy.

3. ACOs all come from the 1960s dogcatcher era and went to the Mayberry RFD Barney Fife Memorial Firearms Instruction School... A stereo-type that stil haunts this PROFESSION.

Lets talk about #1 for a while. It is a proven FACT that ACOs are dealing with a laundry list of murderers, rapists, drug dealers, dogfighters and other violent felons. These people see violence as another way of life and will not distinguish between the uniform of an ACO or an LEO. This leads to the inevitable "Opps I didn't read the fine print on the badge before I shot the officer standing at my door. If I had known he was "only" and animal control officer, I wouldn't have opened fire..." defense on the part of some degenerate felon with outstanding warrants. Does a firearm provide a magic shield against ambush (no) or some guarantee that the bad guys won't assault you (no - look how many cops get assaulted)? In some cases, it IS a deterrent. Those less than hardcore violent types may be dissuaded by the sight of a firearm and most generally law-abiding people will offer it the respect it should receive. One area that firearms do have a viable use for that is on the rise is related to vicious animals. With the spike in dog attacks and the nature of those attacks, it is also an unfortunate reality that lethal force may be the only way to deal with a hyper-aggressive dog. In some cases, especially with rabid or exceptionally large wildlife, firearms are the only safe method for euthanasia.

Now, off to #2. Many ACOs and their jurisdictions feel that making them look like a cop places them at risk. Without a gun, they are less imposing and less likely to draw the aberrant behavior types into a confrontation. This softer image is more conducive to the humane welfare agent. The theory here is that you bring the LEOs with you to do the LEO job, leaving the ACO to deal with the animal side. If you do not practice with your equipment regularly, when it comes to a critical incident, you will likely not be able to use it properly. Ambush and simliar events negate having the equipment at all. The problem with #2 is the many jurisdictions send mixed signals. They make the ACO look almost exactly identical to the LEOs and then get upset when people mistake them for each other. Dogs don't recognize guns. I've seen many a LEO draw down on a dog and then be completely stunned when it didn't stop charging, turn and lay on the ground waiting to be handcuffed... We also have access to equipment that may work a bit better. Like ketchpoles, leashes, dog treats, pepperspray, bite stickes, tennis balls, dazers, etc. (Notice I did NOT include TASERS or ElectroMuscularDisruptionDevices EMDDs in that list).

I won't spend much time on #3. As with any profession trying to reach "acceptability", we will always face the stigma that has been attached. Net carrying bumbling, shirt untucked fools who enjoy running animal shelters so we can kill animals ? - THANKS A LOT HOLLYWOOD! 99% of the officers I know deplore these buffoons and are the absolute opposite when it comes to doing their job. I challenge all the hold-overs to the Dodge City Mayberry Days to do the right thing and RETIRE. Save us all some headaches, animals from suffering, and the inevitable damage you continue to do to the image of the profession.

I have some information on assaults on officers. My personal opinion leans towards #1. The public expects us to act like LEOs so we need to be trained and equipped by LEOs. Hoping that things will go back to the "good ole days" when ACOs were little more than 4-legged collection specialists is not practical. Animal Planet and Animal Cops have made ACOs & HLEOs household names and professions that people WANT to pursue.

And I step down from my soapbox.
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Old 07-03-2006
tbendall tbendall is offline
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Here in the City ACO's are not armed with sidearms. However, we can and do rely on the fact thgat within 2 minutes of a call for assistance we can have 2 LEO units there with us. We are a small city.

In the county of Spartanburg, the ACO's are armed and they have full LEO powers. The remoteness of their territory is a factor, I guess.

As a non-citizen of these here United States, I believe that I would be unable to be a sworn officer and therefor be armed. Although I would not have any problem carrying a sidearm.

As I get more experienced, I am finding it easier to identify potentially risky situations and act accordingly.

We work very closely with our LEO chaps, they support us and we support them. I mean, no self respecting LEO would tangle with some of the beasts that we deal with daily :D

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-03-2006
amccalla amccalla is offline
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Here where I work, we are Certified Peace Officers who specialize in animal crimes. We can do our job without having to call a LEO in the case of difficult people who would normally feel that an ACO has no authority. We can issue citations, serve warrants, and take folks to jail for non compliance. All powers of any police officer. We treat animal crimes as we would any other crime.
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Old 07-04-2006
carrie_cat carrie_cat is offline
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Default Re: You guys will get sick of me soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf
3. ACOs all come from the 1960s dogcatcher era and went to the Mayberry RFD Barney Fife Memorial Firearms Instruction School... A stereo-type that stil haunts this PROFESSION.
...
I won't spend much time on #3. As with any profession trying to reach "acceptability", we will always face the stigma that has been attached. Net carrying bumbling, shirt untucked fools who enjoy running animal shelters so we can kill animals ? - THANKS A LOT HOLLYWOOD! 99% of the officers I know deplore these buffoons and are the absolute opposite when it comes to doing their job. I challenge all the hold-overs to the Dodge City Mayberry Days to do the right thing and RETIRE. Save us all some headaches, animals from suffering, and the inevitable damage you continue to do to the image of the profession.
...
And I step down from my soapbox.
Can I join you in the rant here, Mark?

It's not only the people in those positions, it is also the philosophies of the agencies or the jurisdictions they are in, I think. I was going to say, our ACOs don't carry weapons; I do not think that their training is very extensive. I've wished that there would be some professionalization in this because I think that professionals feel obliged to keep up-to-date and, you're right, Mark, they don't just lean on the "dogcatcher" philosophy. In this kind of case when one of the Mayberry bunch retires, he makes sure he's indoctrinated his successor to behave JUST LIKE HE DID!

I really think that the image of ACOs has changed a lot -- but then too, I've got cable now and I get to watch more Animal Planet and see more professional approaches to things!
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Old 01-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf View Post
I won't spend much time on #3. As with any profession trying to reach "acceptability", we will always face the stigma that has been attached. Net carrying bumbling, shirt untucked fools who enjoy running animal shelters so we can kill animals ? - THANKS A LOT HOLLYWOOD! 99% of the officers I know deplore these buffoons and are the absolute opposite when it comes to doing their job. I challenge all the hold-overs to the Dodge City Mayberry Days to do the right thing and RETIRE. Save us all some headaches, animals from suffering, and the inevitable damage you continue to do to the image of the profession.

I have some information on assaults on officers. My personal opinion leans towards #1. The public expects us to act like LEOs so we need to be trained and equipped by LEOs. Hoping that things will go back to the "good ole days" when ACOs were little more than 4-legged collection specialists is not practical. Animal Planet and Animal Cops have made ACOs & HLEOs household names and professions that people WANT to pursue.
I know this thread is old, but in light of recent events, I had to respond.
I don't even care about carrying a gun; I'd just like to wear a professional uniform! Some of us, Mark, are forced to look like the net carrying, shirt untucked fools by our bosses.
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Old 01-03-2011
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So all that being said Mr Kumpf, which side of the issue do you fall on-for or against carrying?
I know how you feel about the Taser as we had a lengthy discussion outside the Holiday Inn in '08 in the Chicago-area for a NACA conference but in there defense (use of) I have seen them deployed effectively and essentially save a dog from being hit on a four lane road.
Another issue (big time) especially in MI is the lack of continuity in training and the offering of the same at all levels. The state should be more proactive in training guidelines and the such..
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Old 01-03-2011
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What Recent events are you talking about ACOfred?

I run the Animal Control Field Services department out of DC. If any of you think you have it rough, stop by here and visit. We walk that line every day as unarmed officers in the worst parts of the city, but itís how we carry ourselves in the field that makes a difference. We only have an asp, OC, a Kevlar vest, training, and our winning personalities to protect us against a person attacking us. We try and spend as much time as possible out in the community letting people know we are there and we care about the animals, we want the people to care about the animals, and we will listen to them. A lot of what we do is shaped by how we carry ourselves in the field. We donít walk around like Billy badasses or act meek. We are as professional as we can be and aware of our surroundings. And the community is picking up on that.

Years later I still agree with what mark said in this post and there is no one good answer to it, or that only you can answer that question for what works best in your jurisdiction. For my department, I do not believe that our officers should be armed at this time. If a situation is going to be bad before we go in, we grab a cop. If the situation gets bad, we get out of there and go grab a cop. Is what we do perfect, far from it but it works until we find a better way or the situation changes.
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Old 01-03-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJAS1 View Post
If any of you think you have it rough, stop by here and visit....We only have an asp, OC, a Kevlar vest, training...
Really? Gee, I wish I had ANY of those things...
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2011
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It will depend on the state law where you work, and the stateís occupation code. In Texas only a licensed peace officer or a commissioned security guard are allowed to openly carry a handgun. Virtually anybody can openly carry a rifle or shotgun virtually anywhere, but you will attract a LARGE amount of police attention. Properly trained Animal Control Officer has recently been added to the short list of people who can legally carry an ASP (baton), but there is nothing even proposed as of now to place us under the umbrella of ďpeace officerĒ.

Iíll go out on a limb here and say that around 1% of Texas ACOs are licensed peace officers, but the average peace officer makes between 50% more and double ACO pay, so the cities donít want to shell out the money. Also, if the ACO was a licensed PO, they would tend to assign them police officer duties and calls, so the ACO work would be pushed aside.

Texas does have a concealed handgun license, and some ACOs do carry on duty using theirs, but the vast majority of us would be fired if caught carrying a firearm on city property or in a city vehicle even with a license.
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