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  #11  
Old 02-23-2009
Laelaps Laelaps is offline
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I agree, sounds Santeria-ish. We have quite a few Santeros here, and will occasionally get similar odd scenes like that. There are even Santeria shops where candles, salts, sands, and other ritual items can be bought. Roosters and goats are the most common sacrifices here, but I wouldn't doubt they've got many different types of animal sacrifice. Unfortunately, the animal sacrifice part is protected by our constitutional rights to religious freedom from my understanding, but when we are alerted to a Santero we still check and make sure they keep the animals in a humane manner until they're killed.
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Old 02-24-2009
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Thanks for the advice Dave
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laelaps View Post
Unfortunately, the animal sacrifice part is protected by our constitutional rights to religious freedom from my understanding, but when we are alerted to a Santero we still check and make sure they keep the animals in a humane manner until they're killed.

Not sure that is exactly true....

When the Supreme Court ruled on this, they were ruling on the constitutionality of the laws that singled out santeria practictioners.

Under the Consitution, the State does have the right to impose laws on its citizens. Under the First Amendment, however, the State does not have the right to single out followers of a religion and impose laws on them that it does not impose on the rest of the citizens.

So basically, this means that you cannot go up to a practicing member of Santeria, and say "Hey, you are one of those Santeria people! You cannot sacrifice animals!", because you would be, in their eyes, violating their 1st ammendment rights, as you cannot single out them for their religion, BUT you can tell them, "The state laws, that apply to everyone in the state, say you cannot kill any animal unless you are a licensed slaughterhouse, or performing euthanasia, yadda yadda yadda....."

That was pretty much how it was explained to me, but if you want to take a look at the actual Supreme Court opinion, this is a pretty good site to take a look at:

http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~biella/santeria/dec15.html
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Old 03-02-2009
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Awesome- there are always so many angles to look at these things. I'm learning so much lately. I'll def take a look at that site. Thanks!
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Old 03-03-2009
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[quote=ChicagoACOSupervisor;49066]Not sure that is exactly true....

"So basically, this means that you cannot go up to a practicing member of Santeria, and say "Hey, you are one of those Santeria people! You cannot sacrifice animals!", because you would be, in their eyes, violating their 1st ammendment rights, as you cannot single out them for their religion, BUT you can tell them, "The state laws, that apply to everyone in the state, say you cannot kill any animal unless you are a licensed slaughterhouse, or performing euthanasia, yadda yadda yadda....."



That is awsome who'da thunk that......

good insight
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  #16  
Old 03-04-2009
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Yeah..and for some reason the cops and courts here stay away from these cases because they are scared to death to infringe or give the impression they are infringing on someones rights. I had one a few months back...cop calls me here at the office one night to ask about ritualistic sacrifice, as they caught a couple people in the act and wanted to know what to do. I told them to lock their arses up! The cop was extremely reluctant to do that, because "Umm, don't they have a right to do that constitutionally?" NO! They don't! Lock 'em up for aggravated cruelty, and call it a day! They were killing an animal which is prohibited under state law, and is a class 4 felony. Lock them up!

But ugh...if they just approach these cases like any other cruelty case, it will hold up! Why? Because the laws in this state apply to everyone, and do not single out one particular group...which is what the Supreme Court decided on. It is a very very tricky, sticky road to travel...because you are dealing with someones religious practices, so yeah...I can see where this can be dangerous waters to tread.

I also found out something interesting....the more "mainstream" santeria "churches" are now telling their flock to use freshly slaughtered goats and chickens that you can purchase from a butcher, to use in their rituals. Not sure if this is happening everywhere..just heard about it here in Chicago from our animal crimes unit people, but it is something to keep in mind. They are trying to avoid legal issues, but still be able to practice their beliefs.

I also recommend to everyone....anytime you see a chance to attend training on ritualistic animal cruelty, definately go! This is an area that alot of people are pretty not well versed in....because it is not easily understood. Do your homework on this...the internet is another great tool! And definately look at both sides of the fence...from all angles...from the santeria folk point on view, the courts point of view, OUR point of view, law enforcement..and so on. And don't just look at santeria...look at the santanist, the vodoun, carambola (I think that is what it is called)...etc....there are a lot of groups that use animals in their rituals. The guy GTO is talking about is VERY VERY good when it comes to info on this topic.

I say this all the time to my ACO's....in order to conquer your enemy, you must understand and know your enemy. I remember reading that somewhere...and it applies to military strategy, but hey...I think it works for us too! We are not just mere dogcatchers anymore....and I think in order to change the publics (which means our legislature that approves our budget!) view on that, we got to become smarter and even better in our craft.

Okay...off the soapbox......hehehe, I just wrote an article when I meant it to be short! lol But I hope it helps you guys!
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  #17  
Old 03-04-2009
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Go, dude, go! Half of that was news to me.
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