Pit Bulls

[KristenB]

I'm just full of questions!

I was wondering today while reading about pit bull bans if any of you are ever required to enforce breed related bans? It's the first thing that I've thought of that if I were to become an ACO, I would have a very hard time enforcing. There's no way I could tell a family that they had to give up their loving pit bull because of a ban. If it was someone that didn't take care of the dog or only used it as an "ego prop", I wouldn't have any trouble.

Have any of you ever been required to enforce a ban? And what are your thoughts as ACOs on pit bulls in general?

[LCK]

No we dont have a pit bull ban, but do have an ordanace i have used that when a person has a fierce or vicious dog or a dog with a predispotion to be fierce i "may" not shall, thats important,,, use. For example one of the Sheriff deputies arrested an escapee who had in his possesion a baby pit. I was able to get a release on the dog as the man was going back to prison for life. I have also been able to use the ordanance to restrict some doberman owners that were being bitten themselves by dogs they had rescued from euthanasia. Our ordanace reads they have to have a homeowners insurance policy on the dogs, that they be muzzled and leashed when out of their fence that must be 6' tall, and have a sign indicating that they have a vicious animal.
Now on the other hand I do not go after anyone with certain breeds just because I can,, but boy its nice to have something when you have owners that care less about licencing or their dogs at large.
In all honesty I worry alot about Pitts, I dont trust them, maybe i have not been lucky enough to meet a truly nice one. I strongly urge owners of these animals to be very careful and know what they are dealing with, and hope no one has to get hurt to get the point across. Pitts are not the only breed I have had trouble with, there are several who also think its fun to own a wolf,,( of course its mostly huskys when you approach the subjsect with them). Wolf hybrids are getting to be more and more of a problem in this area. I dont blame the breeds only ignorant uneducated people... i do what i can , hope for the best, expect the worst. Somehow things seem to work out.

[KristenB]

I dunno, every American Pit Bull Terrier I've met that's mean or has issues has been abused in some way. Of course, I don't come into contact with a lot of pit bulls, but I belong to quite a few communities online that are focused on pit bulls (and bull breeds in general). I can say that well bred and well trained pits are most likely NOT going to bite a human because they were bred for human loyalty (in a roundabout way). Dog agressiveness, yes, I can see that being a problem. But as far as being a danger to humans, (well bred and well trained) pits aren't near as much of a threat as other common breeds. Back in the day it was german shephards that everyone hated. Hopefully this too shall pass, considering that in America's past, pit bulls were a beloved breed.

Oh, and I'm talking American Pit Bull Terriers. I know it seems trivial, but "pit bull" can refer to any mixed breed of bull breed origin. And besides that, the media gets confused a lot on what is an APBT and what isn't because there are SO many breeds that have a lot of the same physical characteristics. Often times mutts are labeled pit bull mixes. Goes hand in hand with media hype. :(

[k9_artman]

On the subject of aggesive Pits,
I've only been an ACO for about 2 1/2 years, but in my experience I have met plenty of unreasonable Pits. I think unreasonable is a pretty good description, because, as we all(ACOs) know, any dog will act as non-friendly as it can when it doesn't know you and feels it needs to protect its home/self. An unreasonable dog, however, will stick to that demeanor despite any attempts to convince it that you have other/good intentions. I do have to say that in my experience I think I’ve met many more unreasonable German Shepherds, and Shepherd mixes. Worse than that is the predictability factor. I feel that a Pit tends to be either in aggressive mode or friendly mode, whereas a Shepherd tends to have that grey area of unpredictability. My biggest hesitation about Shepherds comes from my ‘bite’ cases. I believe there has been a tendency for Shepherds to cause much more serious injuries. Where I’ve noticed Pits tend to bite down hard and leave deep punctures, I’ve noticed that Shepherds tend to ‘rip’ flesh while they bite. The really horrible injuries that I’ve seen to children, requiring many stitches, seem to have been inflicted by Shepherds. That’s all just my take on the subject. I should also say that I’ve met many likable Shepherds. :lol: Don't get me started on the unpredictablility of Dalmatians!
K9_ARTMAN

[ACO278]

I also have only been doing this job for about 2 1/2 years, and i have never encountered a pitbull that has been vicious towards people. I have only had one that killed another dog. I'm not excusing all the pits in the world but thats just my experience. The meanest dogs i've seen have been german sheps. But you don't here about anything other than pits on the news. So everyone gets freaked out if they think they see one, when it could be the black lab up the road doing the attacking.

[epona4]

I had my first face to face with a pitbull last week, when I went to the shelter to introduce myself. He seemed to be the shelter mascott. I walked in the door, he immediately introduced himself and was one of the most friendly dogs I have ever met. I ended up on the floor petting him for about 15 minutes while the staff was working with another person.

I was glad this was my first encounter with a pit. I've always been nervous about them. The same holds true for Rotties. I was always scared of them till I met my friends big girl. She is one of the most well behaved and loving dogs I have ever met.

It breaks my heart that breeds have been given a bad name because of the awful people who have turned them into mean, scared animals.

Beth

[LCK]

Kristen,, I believe the key words you used are "well bred and well trained" The problem is I almost never get to deal with people who know what that means. :? You also brought up another thing that drives me nuts........ I get a call that a pit bull and a blood hound are running rampant down town last seen chasing people around a church. I arrive to find a visla (aka blood hound) and a boxer (aka pit) looking for anybody to throw them a stick,, I dont know how many times ive gone on a vicious pit bull call and find a friendly boxer instead. Lol , gotta love people and be willing to laugh at stupidity.

[UNDRTKR]

haha, this weekend someone called in a "vicious pit bull charging the public" and when I pulled up on the call it was a sweet big clutzy OAF of a pit bull, running and PLAYING with people (as they ran he looked at them like "What r' we runnin' from??? Can I play?") and the big dumb dumb ran right up to my truck when I arrived, only to try and climb into the passenger seat when I tried to get out of my truck... If he could talk I am sure he was saying
"heeeheeeeheeeee what ya doin? Can we go for a car ride??? heeheeeeee!!! Car ride time, oooooooh boooooy!!!!"
People see a pit bull and they think "OH GOD IT'S MEAN!!!!"
Sometimes people report pit bulls being vicious and when we all ask WHY they say, "Well, because um, it's a pit bull!!!!" I never believe anymore till I see it with my own eyes... :shock:
On the other hand I have met some REAL butthead pit bulls, but then I meet their owner and the owner is usually just as much of a jerk so, goes to show why the dog turned out the way it did...
Stay Safe

[AnimalCop_83]

As of today we are waiting to see if our city council is going to move forward with a pit bull ban. I hate the idea of trying to enforce such a ban, I don't agree with it one bit and it will break my heart to take someone's good dog away. Looking at the breeds we have a problem with in our city, Shepherd mixes took the number one spot for the last several years. We really don't have a problem in our city, yes, we are getting a lot of pitbulls in because of other cities banning the dogs, but it's time to make our ordiance stronger to enforce all bad dogs! Should be interesting, I'm keeping my fingers crossed the city rejects it!

[cso303]

no breed specific legislation for this state, to my relief!
I must admit I've not had great contacts with pit bulls, usually bite cases but that in no way makes them a "breed" to be legislated against...imho
A dog does what it was bred to do, trained to do.... by whom?

[aco416iris]

We currently have a new pitbull-specific legislation in this part of Canada and I am just at a loss for words when it comes to describing how much of a pain in the a** it is to enforce. It has brought many of the "seasoned" officers very close to throwing in the towel. I do like the newer version of the legislation that deals with aggressive dogs in general though which very much emphasizes the whole 'ban the breed and not the deed' deal that I'm a big fan of.

[Gromlich]

So who is gonna be certified to testify in court that YOU know what a pitbull is? A Staffordshire Bull Terrier- called pit bull- is NOT a pit bull. But everday we call them pit bulls. The American Staffordshire Terrier is not a PITBULL and yet everyday we call them and tag them in as a PITBULL.

I have posted this before sso bear with me repeating it. I own an American Pitbull along with a basset, beagle and flat coated retriever. Along with my 3yr old and 10yr old we all love each other. I have NEVER had an aggression problem with my pit. I have had aggression problems with my beagle and flat coated retriever-over food- which was very hard to break.

Sterio typing sucks. I have been charged at by more- Chows, SHEPARDs, and LABS than pits. I work in an area where EVERYTHING is either a pit or a rotti. I do not fear the the ones that have chraged me, I try to be smarter when I approach ALL breeds.

Once again Breed Banning will not solve the problem. They will move on to the breeds that you really dont want to go up agaisnt. Government will not think about banning- Presa Canerio- Tosa- I would would rather go up agaisnt a pissed off pit bull anyday than one of those dogs.

[AnimalCop_83]

Yeah for our city council!!!!!!!! They turned down a pit bull ban!!!!!! And we are going to get tougher dangerous dog laws on our city books, about time :lol:

[UNDRTKR]

Your city kicks ass then!!!
:D
RUMOR has it some bigshot here is going to attempt to introduce a pit bull ban after they witnessed an attack and now they are all over "Omigod ban the breed!!!" attitude....
It makes me sick... Makes me want to get up in front of them and say "I just rescued a pit bull, I am your ACO, but now you're telling me, YOUR ACO, that not only can I no longer keep MY dog simply because of other people's errors, but now you want me to go and take other dogs away too??? Kiss my ***"
Something tells me I'd get busted for that one!!! Haha

[BA ACO]

I just got this in my e-mail today. Looks as though Oklahoma going to try it now. I don't understand why they would want to ban a specific breed when all they would have to do is stiffen up the dangerous dog laws....that would cover ALL BREEDS....including chows, cockers, shar peis, chihuahuas and dalmations!!!! It boggles my mind.


ALERT!

PENDING DOG LEGISLATION WILL AFFECT ALL DOG RESCUERS, SHELTERS, AND DOG LOVERS!



The 2nd Session of the 50th Legislature (2006) will have several "Breed Specific" bills to consider.

The most controversial are House Bills 2657 and 2658, creating "Cody's Law". Both are authorized by State Representative Paul Wesselhoft. If they are voted into law by Legislature, both would effectively ban Pit Bulls or dogs with Pit Bull physical characteristics. Both bills are breed specific. Weeselhoft has defined any Pit Bull as "American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, or any dog displaying the physical traits of any one or more of the above breeds, or any dog exhibiting those distinguishing characteristics which substantially conform to the standards established by the American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club for any of the above breeds."

The danger of starting "breed specific legislation" is where does it stop? What breed is next? It is a fact that Pit Bulls are NOT dangerous. There is great evidence to support this. The American Temperament Test maintains records of all breeds and Pit Bull are NOT always failures. At this time, they average a PASS of over 85%! Perhaps we must consider the OWNER CARE of the dog.

Paul Demars, an Animal Behaviorist at Oklahoma State University's Veterinary School, said: "to dogs, whether a Pit Bull or a Chihuahua, biting isn't necessarily inappropriate. The difference is...a Chihuahua's bite is mild compared to the bite of a Pit Bull's powerful jaw," he said. "Biting can occur for different reasons, one being a miscommunication." Demars used the example of a person approaching a dog: "The dog barks-a signal that the person should stop. When the person doesn't stop, the dog is 'justified' to bite," he said.

"Another factor in a dog's behavior is its environment. Demars said that plays a huge role. A common myth is that Pit Bulls have been bred to fight. Demars said "this isn't true. The breed was bred to work, adding that another role was to offer their owners protection. Rottweilers are another breed that was bred to work, such as herding animals and providing protection," he continued. "Most dogs were bred at a time when owners needed more protection."

Both bills would also require enclosures to keep any of these dogs confined, at least eight (8) feet tall, embedded at least a foot (12 inches) in the ground. Under this law, if it is passed, the enclosure material would have to "prevent any young children from entering with any part of their bodies". This new law if activated would require any person housing a "Pit Bull, as described above, to maintain no less than one hundred thousand ($100,000) of liability insurance or surety bond, insuring the owner for any personal injuries inflicted by each dog. This bill would require that all existing Pit Bulls in the state of Oklahoma be spayed/neutered, and would not allow anyone to purchase a Pit Bull outside the state and bring it to Oklahoma. The bill would also allow cities and counties to require up to a $50 annual license fee. There are many other ramifications of Pit Bull ownership included in the legislation.

BOTH of these Bills must be defeated! Call you State Representative and you State Senator and tell them you want to go on record as opposed to both HB 2657 and HB 2658. In an attempt to make is possible for BREED SPECIFIC BANS, State Senator Paddock has filed Senate bill 1702 (identical legislation to this bill did not become law in 2005). Ask your Representative and your Senator to also listen to your opposition on "BREED SPECIFIC" legislation.

BUT HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS: There are several NON "DOG BREED SPECIFIC" bills which would define the "dangerous dog" problem intelligently and provide workable controls to ensure public safety without condemning a single breed to oblivion.

The BILLS TO SUPPORT are: House Bill 2076, by State Representative Smithson (House Bill 2697 by State Representative Worthen is identical to Smithson's Bill) and Senate Bill 1711 by Senator Shurden. Please call these legislators and give your support to those who have worked hard to present GOOD, NON BREED SPECIFIC LEGISLATION to control really dangerous dogs!

Because the current 2005 Yellow Pages do not have the right names for all the current State Representatives or Senators, to find your Representative call (405) 521-2711, to find your Senator call (405) 524-0126.



Special note to those who fear or do not like Pit Bull dogs. Several years ago, the targeted breeds feared most were Dobermans, German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Chows, and mixes of these breeds. Time has proven these dogs are not vicious. The mishandling of ANY BREED of dog always causes behavioral problems. If a dog spends the greater part of its life chained it will almost always react negatively to human contact. We must never forget this and always strive to see our dogs have the human touch to be able to give back the unconditional love a dog is famous for having. There are some wonderful Pit Bulls in this world, as there are wonderful dogs of every breed. It is only when these wonderful creatures end up in the wrong hands that they turn in to weapons.



Great websites to check out:



http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/pitbull_history.htm



http://dogbreedinfo.com/ban.htm



http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/dogholocaust/



http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/dogholocaust/



http://www.pethelp.net/pits.html



also try search: pit bull dogs

[aco4dogs]

Its time politicans started banning irresponsible pet owners, not the dogs themselves. Any dog can be mean. I've never been bit by a pit bull. I've had a few encouters with them that were less than pleasant, but these were dogs left chained in a yard by an owner who never did a thing with them. I've had a rottweiler attack an employee at the shelter - another owner turn in, and I've been bit by more ankle biters aka "small breeds" than any large dog. The media has increased the hype surrounding pit bulls and ordinances should be made regarding ALL viscious dogs/breeds, not just selective breed banning. I've met some wonderful pits that were owned by wonderful people. Its a real shame that this breed takes the rap for human stupidity.

[KristenB]

We have a pit bull as well, and so far she's been easier to train and work with than any other dog we've had.

Breed banning will only punish good owners. People who use them for "ego props", etc will not care if there is a ban. If someone selling drugs has a pit bull, do you really think they're going to say "Hm, this is against the law, time to get rid of the pit."? No, and if they do, they will just move onto a bigger, more aggressiver breed. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this will only get worse before it gets better.

[dug e]

I think the general publics "perception" of pits and staffordshire's has been a direct result of media reporting. Cant blame the media though. We just dont hear about the toy dogs attacking very much. Its not good news for ratings. There is a post in the forums on acofunstop about a toy breed attacking a cop though.

When a big dog attacks, it is the amount of damage that it does that gets all of the attention. There should be some kind of a data base where dog attacks could be reported. I think that is the only true way it could be shown what dogs are attacking and who and why they attacked. Was a person attacked, another dog or cat?

In Oklahoma Title 4 OS 44 says:

1. "Potentially dangerous dog" means any dog that:

a. when unprovoked inflicts bites on a human either on public or private property, or

b. when unprovoked kills or severely injures a domestic animal either on public or private property;

2. "Dangerous dog" means any dog that:

a. has inflicted severe injury on a human being without provocation on public or private property,

b. has been previously found to be potentially dangerous, the owner having received notice of such by the animal control authority in writing and the dog thereafter aggressively bites, attacks, or endangers the safety of humans, or

c. has been previously found to be potentially dangerous, the owner having received notice of such by the animal control authority in writing and the dog thereafter kills or severely injures a domestic animal;

3. "Severe injury" means any physical injury that results in broken bones or lacerations requiring multiple sutures or cosmetic surgery;

4. "Proper enclosure of a dangerous dog" means, while on the owner's property, a dangerous dog shall be securely confined indoors or in a securely enclosed and locked pen or structure with at least one hundred fifty (150) square feet of space for each dog kept therein which is over six (6) months of age, and which is suitable to prevent the entry of children and designed to prevent the animal from escaping. Such pen or structure shall have secure sides and a secure top, and shall also provide protection from the elements for the dog;

5. "Animal control authority" means an entity acting alone or in concert with other local governmental units for enforcement of the animal control laws of the city, county and state and the shelter and welfare of animals;

6. "Animal control officer" means any individual employed, contracted with, or appointed by the animal control authority for the purpose of aiding the enforcement of this act or any other law or ordinance relating to the licensure of animals, control of animals, or seizure and impoundment of animals, and includes any state or local law enforcement officer or other employee whose duties in whole or in part include assignments that involve the seizure and impoundment of any animal; and

7. "Owner" means any person, firm, corporation, organization, or department possessing, harboring (I like this one), keeping, having an interest in, or having control or custody of an animal.

end

I like this statute and (at this time) I think it is just about as good as any thing else I have seen like it. I think this is far more superior and constitutional than any breed ban.

I deal with calls from the elderly and mothers concerned about thier kids safety. Grandma was taking her morning walk and a pit bull chased her back home. Come to find out it is a playfull french bull dog.
Does the public even know what bull dog breeds thier are?

Why dont the media ask us about the subject? If I was a fair investigative reporter, wouldnt I go to the animal experts to find out what the most aggressive breeds are? My answer would be, "Is thier really a most aggressive breed?" I think I have had my rear end almost chewed off by all of them. But, I have also had hours of enjoyment playing with just about all of them to the point of aching I laughed so hard.

Doug

[Big Brown Dog]

I deal with calls from the elderly and mothers concerned about thier kids safety. Grandma was taking her morning walk and a pit bull chased her back home. Come to find out it is a playfull french bull dog.
Does the public even know what bull dog breeds thier are?

Doug

This is one of my pet peeves...I don't believe most folks recognize how much a danger dogs can present to elderly people. The friendly dog that bounces up to Grandma (I don't care what kind of dog it is) to be petted and topples the senior over is just is dangerous as a vicious dog to my mind.
If an old person falls & breaks a hip it's basically a death sentence...it make take 3 or 4 years to be realized but it still a death sentence.

It's frustrating to me that the owners of the friendly Golden Retriever, Cocker, whatever, refuse to recognize what a danger that their "just wants to be petted" hound running loose truly is to old folks.

My rant is complete. :vent:

[imadogcop]

I agree! We have had that situation happen. We had an 85 year old man get knocked down by a pitbull (the dog was playing ball with the neighbor kid when we arrived) and the man hit his head, hurt his shoulder, cut his leg, and had unbelievable bruises head to toe. The poor guy. :cry: I issued a citation to the owner for "animal attacking". The owner tried to argue that the dog is friendly, he just did not get it. Any dog could have done this.
If that was my dad or grandpa...... ::onfire:: ! He doesn't know how lucky he was to get a citation! I could have let the grandson deal with him!

But these are situations that get blown up and all the public hears is, "Pitbull Attacks Elderly Man". I think hasher penalties are necassary. And of course, MORE ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS to enforce and patrol! We have 5 Officers for a city of 120,000. Not enough to respond to every call about loose or vicious dogs. And definately not enough to patrol. We responded to over 8500 calls last year. :vent: :vent: :vent:

[dug e]

imadogcop said:
I don't believe most folks recognize how much a danger dogs can present to elderly people.

I agree with you but the key word is present not intent. Most of the time the dog probably just wants to play or some attention. I dont think the answer is to kill off a certain breed or any dog for that matter because IDIOT is to stupid to keep their dog in and/or dont really care about grandma or mom's quality of life period. Who cares if stupids great dane is playfully tormenting moms 2 year old in the sand box?

I dont think these people really care about the effects of thier dog running at large!!! But they care when I write them a $144 ticket for RAL. Or $244 for no rabies vaccination or $144 for no city tag. People really start paying attention when I chase thier beutifull choclate lab into thier back yard and take it because it eluded me all the way back to its home. The owner is appauled when I tell them that thier intact male was out trying to take it upon himself to repopulate the entire city.

"Do you have a current rabies vaccination certificate from an Okalhoma Sate recognized vet? (I ask for this like the police ask for an insurance verification) Do you have a current city tag? Why isnt the dogs tags on its collar? Here sign all these citations, press hard there are 5 copies."

Its not the dog it is the owner!!!!

Doug

[Big Brown Dog]

Its not the dog it is the owner!!!!

Doug

What kind of "owner" tends to select a breed of dog for a pet that has been selectively bred to fight and kill other dogs?

Lots of breeds of dogs out there...bright, obedient, affectionate dogs, all shapes & sizes...why pick one bred to fight & kill other dogs for a pet?

[Gromlich]

What kind of "owner" tends to select a breed of dog for a pet that has been selectively bred to fight and kill other dogs?

OOOOOHHH Hell.

Me, I am THAT kind of OWNER. Let me clarify that I did not just wake up one morning and decide, "Gee, let me see if I can get one of those "breed to fight and kill other dogs" just to see if it will kill my other dogs, maul my children or me. Nope, I see it this way, a little more logical than that. Just because soemthing has the BLOOD of what ever was trained before it doesnt mean that this dog is gonna be the same. It has to be driven and trained into that dog. Your dad was a smarta**, does that mean you are? If you were brought up around it all your life, good chance you will be. If mom and dad divorced and you lived with mom and you were not raised around the smartas**, most likely you will not be a smartass**. Also Do you think the shar-peis were born ready and waiting to guard the meat? Nope they had to be trained. I owned one of those too for 14 years. They say its a good bloodline for what characteristics the body carries on. stocky shoulders, sharp jaw line, and yes the idiots say how many fights they have one. But if you dont train them to be killers, they wont be. They can all be compassionate and I can prove that. Just take a look at my 7-8 year old pit. Who I have taken to schools to educate the children. Raised around two children. NEVER has snapped, bitten or tried to impose any danger on me or my family. Now, try to come in my house when I am not there or sleeping? She will tear your butt up. And that I did teach her.

[dug e]

Okay, Okay! Lets slow down here. First I dont think we need to get ugly at each other. I think that on both sides of the argument it comes back to irresponsible people.

You are of the opinion that people should not select a bread that has been bred to kill and fight other dogs. I think people should be responsible. I dont care if they have a 7 headed, queen slaying, firebreathing dragon or some man killing menace from outer space in thier backyard!!! As long as the thing is taken care of and in compliance with federal, state and municiple law (not scaring the bejesus out of granny) I can care less what it is!!!!!

Now there is no sense for us to argue at each other. I think it is healthy to discuss the spirit of an issue and then work toward aplying what we learn from each other.

I dont have a whole lot of time in animal control, about 2 years in . But I have a bunch of experience in dealing with people. I think 99.9 % of all animal issues can be solved dealing smartly with people. I also think that the remaining % will get me hurt. I also live in a town small enough that I have time to deal with individual people like that. I am not all that rushed.

Doug

[Gromlich]

Nasty? Sorry if I came across that way. Maybe its the meds. Just tring to get a point across and well, ya know when you feel very strongly about something you tend to voice it loudly. Thats me. I value everybodys oppions here.

[UNDRTKR]

Just had to toss in my two pennies on this one.. I dont think people go out and look for dogs that were bred to kill other dogs... I think a "certain population" out there selects a pit bull because they think it looks cool to have a tough looking dog, it becomes a status symbol, and the pit bull in general is a "not so nice" looking dog... They ask themselves "Why get a BEAUTIFUL German Shepherd when we can have a dog with ears hacked off halfway and a big huge buff chest?? Shepherds dont look like that" They dont realize the GSD has just as much potential to be aggressive, attacking people and other dogs, and they have the appearance just as mean.
If they wanted a dog that was bred to attack, IF they were smart (I am refering to the owners who want "mean looking" dogs) they would have half a brain that would tell them the GSD was ALSO bred for working lines to chase, capture, and attack people, which is for police purposes.
But the shepherd isnt "tough" looking enough for the general public.
So they go for the tough dogs, then they take their "tough" dogs home and place a dang tow chain and paddlock around their necks and give them very little moving space which makes them anxious and jumpy, and they start becoming aggressive over their little chain area.
If they were to take a working line GSD, chain it up like that, I can guarantee it would become extremely aggressive, and the day that dog breaks loose, well, all hell will break loose with it.
So I guess I dont think that when people look for a pit bull they want a dog that will get loose and kill their neighbor's dog someday, they just want a dog that will make them "tough" like all their friends, and most aggressive breeds just dont look tough enough for them... It's pathetic.
I think they need to have strict laws against people who allow their dogs to run loose because the majority of our dog attacks here involve dogs that have been loose a thousand times already. Had laws been more strict, they wouldnt have that dog long enough for it to be involved in a attack in the first place.
But they (government) will learn the hard way. They will do their little breed bans and these stupid pet owners will then go out and get other breeds and the same thing will happen all over again.

[LCK]

:puppy: Just my two cents worth,,, Pit bulls are like guns, in the right hands they are fine in the wrong hands they can be deadly.
Grom Ive learned quite alot from line breeding and genetics and dogs can show some characteristics from ancestors just from the genes with no training involved. Responsible owners should know what kind of dog they are raising and what that dog was bred to do in the beginning. I think we all agree that it boils down to the person owning the dog and being responsible.

[Gromlich]

UNDTKR and LCK - I agree with both of you and very well spoken. Sorry to all that my posts may have offended. Its a shame and the battle will never end. With or without the banns.

[dug e]

Gomlich wrote:
Nasty? Sorry if I came across that way. Maybe its the meds. Just tring to get a point across and well, ya know when you feel very strongly about something you tend to voice it loudly. Thats me. I value everybodys oppions here.

Gromlich I was not talking about you, you are right!!!! I am on your side all the way. And you dont offend anyone that I have seen. I believe with everything inside of me that an animal reacts to Its environment. I was just trying to cool down some sparks that looked like could have ignited.


You go get um!!!
Doug

[stmelangell]

LEGISLATE AGAINST THE OWNERS!!! I am so tired of people who have dangerous dogs having the dog taken away and a fine or something incurred. Smack them with jail time or enough of a fine that they don't want to create another situation like that ever again. We all know that the dog is going to suffer for its behaviour, whatever -- either by continued isolation (and being owned by a jerk), or by being taken away and euthanized. If we make the a**hole owner suffer a bunch in addition, maybe s/he'll think again before s/he screws up the next dog.

As a chow rescuer, my experience is that environment is 80% of the solution and good breeding is the other 20%. I have seen chow after chow that some idiot puts in the backyard as a living alarm system, and 3 years later no one gets into the backyard, including the idiot. (Chows have been bred for 2,000 years to hunt and guard, but everyone acts all surprised when they do that ... :roll: )
I have sometimes seen puppies that I thought had high levels of territorial/predatory aggression, that I thought would grow up into dangerous dogs no matter what. But these were the tiny minority -- probably three pups in 6 years. Generally, a pup of any breed is going to react to its environment. They learn what behaviours will result in good stuff happening, and behave in a way that gives them that good result. If the owner makes sure that the only good result they ever get is catching the cat or having fun snarling at people over the fence, that's what the owner gets, gosh darn it, and who the h*ll's fault is that????

My own male chow, Kandahar, came from a street breeder who was going to dump all four of his pups on the street. I've had him since he was 6 weeks old, and he is 70 pounds of total cuddly love. He goes running up to people with his big pom-pom tail wagging like crazy, wanting to be petted and scratched ... THAT startles some of the dog trainers at work, I can tell you!! :rotfl: He sleeps very happily on the bed with my cats, despite being (typically) predatory out on walks... because he knows my boundaries and has adapted to them.

[carrie_cat]

Why dont the media ask us about the subject?

Doug

Sometimes, they do -- in my jurisdiction they've reported the opinion of our Chief. I think the trouble is that our Chief does not have a high-visibility profile, and so the several other opinions reported sort of outweigh him. That is sad, too, but I'll not comment on that - it takes work to build concensus and support.

When I was around five years old, one of the neighbors' dogs (happened to be a German Shepherd) ran up to me real happy and knocked me off-balance. I was upset for a while, but not really hurt physically. Luckily for me and the dog, my folks and neighbors saw that we were okay, did not start to behave like the dog had just arrived from Mars, and today I am fine with dogs big or little.

I think it's a longer-term effect of our lack of humane education in school and at home, that so many people today literally ARE scared to death of animals, many of which are perfectly ordinary dogs or cats that would rather turn tail than scratch or bite. In my community we have a lot of hysteria over feral cats that people "just know" are going to run up to a child outdoors, bite and scratch it and generally torture and kill the child. Uh, right. Those parents are in ignorant terror, and I emphasize the word IGNORANT. And, as with the pit bulls, the media just love it, as it makes a terrific "human interest" story.

[Mark Kumpf]

Why dont the media ask us about the subject?

Doug

Sometimes, they do -- in my jurisdiction they've reported the opinion of our Chief. I think the trouble is that our Chief does not have a high-visibility profile, and so the several other opinions reported sort of outweigh him. That is sad, too, but I'll not comment on that - it takes work to build concensus and support.


Maybe we, the professionals could put together a one-sheet of comments and COMMENTORS that we could post here. Whenever you run into the "we need someone who knows what the $#*@ they are talking about to make a statement" moments, you can PM AG or me and we can SEND the info to a list of local media outlets as a way of putting our 2cents in.

M

[dug e]

Sounds good to me!!! I think the PR skills would really be put to the test.

Doug

[cdfrommd]

We don't have a breed ban for our county but one township does. They passed a ban on the pit bull breed stating that if you lived inside the town limits, you could register your dog and be legal. Otherwise after that date you can't bring one inside town limits. This includes new move ins, visiting or walking on the boardwalk. We don't enforce the ban due to it being a private town ban, not county. Our neighboring county has the breed ban and they can't keep up. I think that it is like the bans in the past. Like the Saturday Night Special and the Alochol ban from many,many years back. Once you out law something, most people want that item even more.
As for the breed, I don't have a problem with them. Only had a few handfulls that didn't need to be near the public. But the other 95% that I do deal with are some of the best dogs around. One that I remember the most was a rescued four month old pit bull that a friend had. At around two months of age a military person beat it and broke both back legs and never took to vet. I was alreadyplaying with the pup before I heard this story. This pup loved me like there was no tomorrow even though I was a male in a uniform, just like the person that beat him.
As for trying to say that all pit bull breeds are dangerous and should be outlawed, I hope that it doesn't happen here. To date we have a Daschund on our Dangerous Dog List among other dogs. Yeah, fifteen pounds of terror. Just goes to show that any dog with teeth can be a danger. ::cutepup::
The other thing tha I don't like is just like everyone else has said before. I see a pit bull and it is dangerous. You need to get here to pick it up before it kills some one. Or it says in the oridance that a dangerous dog has to be muzzeled and on a three foo leash, well why is it out here with a kid walking it. I have to explain that our unit has to deem the dog as dangerous, not the public just because it is a certain breed.
This was a good topic. Thaks for leting me throw in my two cents. Now to start a new topic on fines, I 'm intrested in that over $100 fine for ral and license.

[GJ Stuart]

ASK THE PROFESSIONALS? In Ohio Pits are considered vicious just by being a "Pit type dog". I am against BSL 100% but many ACO's in Ohio are all for it.

A bill was introduced to remove the BSL part from the State law and the leading group of ACO's in Ohio were right there fighting it! In fact, many want to add more breeds to the list like American Bulldogs, Boxers, and Bulldogs!!!

Again, I'll say it...Don't punish good dog owners, with laws that bad dog owners don't care about in the first place. Treat every case based on the merits of THAT CASE. Treat each dog on the actions of THAT DOG.....AND NAIL THE BAD OWNERS!!

Ohio is a great place to do some studies about BSL...It doesn't work in my opinion. All they are doing is euthanizing lots of Pits, good or bad.
Owners don't care, they'll get another dog if it is taken. The dogs are kept "underground"...not cared for properly, not taken to vets for fear of discovery.....They aren't walked or exercised, and many are "short-leashed in basements or garages! It is like telling a kid NOT to drink or do drugs, it makes the dogs more coveted by the punks that abuse these animals.

I personally treat every dog complaint based on what I see...Is the dog is well socialized, and cared for? Does it live with and/or get along with other animals & kids? If it does, I don't consider it to be vicious in my professional opinion.

In Ohio, the Ohio Attorney Generals Office DID put out the opinion that a Pit type dog IS considered to be vicious UNLESS there is evidence to the contrary....This is what I use to justify my actions.

[Connecticut AACO]

In Connecticut, we have to submit a form to the CT Dept. of Agriculture on all dog bite incidents that we do. They tally up all incidents and send out the results to all Animal control Divisions at the end of the year.

[lovindogs]

I am just now joining the group and am coming in late for this discussion but feel like putting my two scents worth. I have only been a ACO for almost a year now but have come across many Pit Bulls (I prefer to call them Am Staffs) and have rarely met a mean, aggressive one. During the summer months we were bringing in 5- 6 per week and I interacted with the dogs brought in on a daily basis and they were adorable. Lots of energy and love to play but I think I only met two Am Staffs that were untrustworthy. The majority of them pass their temperment tests with flying colours and were adopted out to better home. I don't like breed bans because it seems like every few years it is a new dog to be aware of but to claim a BREED as bad is just wrong and done out of ignorance.

Leah Parsons
Animal Services Officer,
Dartmouth, NS

[AdrianACO]

in my town you cant descremenate against a breed of dog . but i can deem it a vicious animal by past breed actions, and have them removed and put down..

[carole]

Our City bylaws state that any dog with the breeding of pit, staffordshire or any mix of those breeds is deemed "vicious" right from birth. That sucks because that means my cute little 10 week old staffordshire terriers are already considered "vicious". I went on a call yesterday for a pittie on a persons porch. I get there and the dog is just laying on the porch enjoying the sunshine. I walk right up and he starts wagging his tail and lets me leash him. The owner of the house wouldn't even open her door until the dog was leashed. What are people going to do? Ban pitties and staffies and let them go extinct? They will only find another breed to pick on. If people were some what smart they would realize that it is behavior not breed. That is like saying that all African-American males are criminals or french men are better lovers, one or two may be like that but it doesn't mean that the entire nationality is like that. There are lots of "bad" priests but you don't see anyone banning them! Maybe someone could start a petition to ban stupid people? Don't ban the breed, change the behavior.